Fascinating... fascinating. Great to get the context like that. Thanks, Erik. I also remember who was the first person I was aware of who was also well-known for saying "Never trust a hippie". (Of course!)
There's a pretty good documentary titled "Charles Manson Killed the 60's" or something like that. It mostly features old counter-culture heads talking . about how Manson ruined everything for them. Abbie Hoffman's wife is interviewed and she talks about them going to visit the Ranch before the murders...to see what they were all about. She still seemed to have some resentment of the girls as "the ideal, blonde haired, blue eyed hippie girls."
"Never Trust a Hippie" T-shirts started appearing almost immediately after the Manson trials. HA. Of course, they were just the start and throughout the 70's...there'd be a lot of reasons not to trust hippies.
Inherent Vice....recent film based on Pichton's novel is set in Los Angeles during this intense backlash against counter culture. Of course, I haven't seen it yet...because children (though I did get to see the aggressively bad Mall Cop 2 with the big man).
I don't think I'm done with all this and I'm glad you enjoyed it.
The the twisted 'romance' that has soften tied rock and roll rebellion to the sick horror of the Manson Family bullshit has always disturbed and appalled me. Manson is evil and that's it. Not sure he is insane but I'm convinced he is evil. Evil exists. As for hippies - a lot of interesting things came out of the hippy movement but it was doomed to failure due to its lack of moral foundation and its immature fascination with drug culture. Never trust a hippy? Definitely but I wouldn't trust a self proclaimed 'Punk' either. Trust yourself.
Well...you know I have an ongoing war with the 60's and their demonic spawns. Normally taking the form of parents telling you how cool they were and record store clerks trying to sell you Doors posters...but, occasionally as stabbers and bombers. Always badly dressed.
Manson...was locked up by the time he was like ten. It was an unbroken history of crime. Evidently he begged to stay in prison the last time he was released. Even the murders seem to have a very mundane beginning...at least relatively...the mistaken idea that they had killed a Black Panther in some dope dealings.
The fascinating thing to me though is the girls. Lislie Van Houten giggled while the Labianca murders were described in court. Sandra Good has continued to support Manson. She's a freakin' mess. Squeaky.
The last person I would trust is me, Bear. :)
I bet prog rockers never stabbed nobody...or blew sh*t up. They'd just cut 'em down with lazer beams.
Any last sentimental vestiges of affection I might have harboured towards hippies or their goofy "ideals" evaporated while reading prosecutor Vincent Bugliosi’s “Helter Skelter: The True Story of The Manson Murders” in 1974, which I found pant-wettingly scary. I wonder if any of the Occupy crowd have ever read it: you never know - might make them think again. I’m going to shock you, though, Erik – I still love and listen with pleasure to the music, much of which is great, if you can ignore what they were are actually saying.
As for bloody punks - no, I'd better stop - don't want to get banned again.
I wonder about Bugliosi's insistence on the race war element. I don't doubt he sold it...still, it's a terrifying story. Manson's a raging hillbilly that's been locked up all his life...on LSD. But you look at that picture of Kitty and Katherine and them...is it a smoke break during a debutante ball or a trial for psycho killers?
The PUnk Rockers are gonna get theirs too...for letting pop culture down like they did.
Interesting ideas on authenticity - I have been spending a lot of time trying to run it through my head - what we think cultural authenticity is and why we think it's important - mostly about art but in general too.
The cultural issue...like how people view the world, interact with it, etc. is fairly easy...if you're in it. As a generalization, I feel pretty confident about Southerners in this regard...but I would have no idea what was authentically French. It's not impossible to have a working knowledge of these things but caution is crucial. Sadly, when I got my wish to study the British Empire, THIS is what I ended up studying...instead of adventures on the North West Frontier.
BUT...I think you're talking about something more interesting...maybe Andy can draw it out.
To be crudely simplistic about it, I think a lot of mangiacakes don't have a culture at all anymore in the usual sense and are in some sort of desperate, unhinged search for one, like a brain-damaged squirrel trying to find its way across a busy road. I think the Industrial Revolution or even something before that dislocated something cultural in England, and that dislocation got worse and spread to Australia and parts of North America - and whatever that dislocation is, it's what makes them so distrustful of people who aren't dislocated in the same way, while at the same time so eager to appropriate their culture, or else to try to dredge up some traces of cultural identity, consciously or unconsciously, from the sterile wasteland in which they live and work. I can see where this could start to lead to Andy Warhol's work being interesting and I'm resisting it because fuck do I hate Andy Warhol.
BTW did I ever mention that one of the epithets white Australians have for aboriginal people is "'lations"? As in "relations" - making fun of them because they talk about their family so much? Jesus.
Fascinating... fascinating. Great to get the context like that. Thanks, Erik. I also remember who was the first person I was aware of who was also well-known for saying "Never trust a hippie". (Of course!)
ReplyDeleteThere's a pretty good documentary titled "Charles Manson Killed the 60's" or something like that. It mostly features old counter-culture heads talking . about how Manson ruined everything for them. Abbie Hoffman's wife is interviewed and she talks about them going to visit the Ranch before the murders...to see what they were all about. She still seemed to have some resentment of the girls as "the ideal, blonde haired, blue eyed hippie girls."
Delete"Never Trust a Hippie" T-shirts started appearing almost immediately after the Manson trials. HA. Of course, they were just the start and throughout the 70's...there'd be a lot of reasons not to trust hippies.
Inherent Vice....recent film based on Pichton's novel is set in Los Angeles during this intense backlash against counter culture. Of course, I haven't seen it yet...because children (though I did get to see the aggressively bad Mall Cop 2 with the big man).
I don't think I'm done with all this and I'm glad you enjoyed it.
The the twisted 'romance' that has soften tied rock and roll rebellion to the sick horror of the Manson Family bullshit has always disturbed and appalled me. Manson is evil and that's it. Not sure he is insane but I'm convinced he is evil. Evil exists. As for hippies - a lot of interesting things came out of the hippy movement but it was doomed to failure due to its lack of moral foundation and its immature fascination with drug culture. Never trust a hippy? Definitely but I wouldn't trust a self proclaimed 'Punk' either. Trust yourself.
ReplyDeleteWell...you know I have an ongoing war with the 60's and their demonic spawns. Normally taking the form of parents telling you how cool they were and record store clerks trying to sell you Doors posters...but, occasionally as stabbers and bombers. Always badly dressed.
DeleteManson...was locked up by the time he was like ten. It was an unbroken history of crime. Evidently he begged to stay in prison the last time he was released. Even the murders seem to have a very mundane beginning...at least relatively...the mistaken idea that they had killed a Black Panther in some dope dealings.
The fascinating thing to me though is the girls. Lislie Van Houten giggled while the Labianca murders were described in court. Sandra Good has continued to support Manson. She's a freakin' mess. Squeaky.
The last person I would trust is me, Bear. :)
I bet prog rockers never stabbed nobody...or blew sh*t up. They'd just cut 'em down with lazer beams.
Everybody knows it was just a phase...a couple of Asia records doesn't make it full blown proglodiloa
DeleteAny last sentimental vestiges of affection I might have harboured towards hippies or their goofy "ideals" evaporated while reading prosecutor Vincent Bugliosi’s “Helter Skelter: The True Story of The Manson Murders” in 1974, which I found pant-wettingly scary. I wonder if any of the Occupy crowd have ever read it: you never know - might make them think again. I’m going to shock you, though, Erik – I still love and listen with pleasure to the music, much of which is great, if you can ignore what they were are actually saying.
ReplyDeleteAs for bloody punks - no, I'd better stop - don't want to get banned again.
You love the Age of Aquarius!
DeleteI wonder about Bugliosi's insistence on the race war element. I don't doubt he sold it...still, it's a terrifying story. Manson's a raging hillbilly that's been locked up all his life...on LSD. But you look at that picture of Kitty and Katherine and them...is it a smoke break during a debutante ball or a trial for psycho killers?
The PUnk Rockers are gonna get theirs too...for letting pop culture down like they did.
Interesting ideas on authenticity - I have been spending a lot of time trying to run it through my head - what we think cultural authenticity is and why we think it's important - mostly about art but in general too.
ReplyDeleteThe cultural issue...like how people view the world, interact with it, etc. is fairly easy...if you're in it. As a generalization, I feel pretty confident about Southerners in this regard...but I would have no idea what was authentically French. It's not impossible to have a working knowledge of these things but caution is crucial. Sadly, when I got my wish to study the British Empire, THIS is what I ended up studying...instead of adventures on the North West Frontier.
DeleteBUT...I think you're talking about something more interesting...maybe Andy can draw it out.
To be crudely simplistic about it, I think a lot of mangiacakes don't have a culture at all anymore in the usual sense and are in some sort of desperate, unhinged search for one, like a brain-damaged squirrel trying to find its way across a busy road. I think the Industrial Revolution or even something before that dislocated something cultural in England, and that dislocation got worse and spread to Australia and parts of North America - and whatever that dislocation is, it's what makes them so distrustful of people who aren't dislocated in the same way, while at the same time so eager to appropriate their culture, or else to try to dredge up some traces of cultural identity, consciously or unconsciously, from the sterile wasteland in which they live and work. I can see where this could start to lead to Andy Warhol's work being interesting and I'm resisting it because fuck do I hate Andy Warhol.
DeleteBTW did I ever mention that one of the epithets white Australians have for aboriginal people is "'lations"? As in "relations" - making fun of them because they talk about their family so much? Jesus.
I'm sensing some personal investment in this particular issue :).
DeleteThat is in the realm of possibility.
Delete